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	<title>Comments on: Readers&#8217; Forum: No phone calls, please! (Version 2)</title>
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	<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2</link>
	<description>The insider&#039;s edge on job search &#38; hiring™ &#124; Copyright © 2011 North Bridge Group, Inc. All rights reserved.</description>
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		<title>By: Nic</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2/comment-page-1#comment-20619</link>
		<dc:creator>Nic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1096#comment-20619</guid>
		<description>Re: Lynne&#039;s comment

You make a valid point, state clearly the minimum requirements and hold firm to them, rejecting all those that do not qualify. The problem is today everyone has been led to believe they are special (which they are not,) and that rules to not apply to them. It is time that changes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Lynne&#8217;s comment</p>
<p>You make a valid point, state clearly the minimum requirements and hold firm to them, rejecting all those that do not qualify. The problem is today everyone has been led to believe they are special (which they are not,) and that rules to not apply to them. It is time that changes.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynne</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2/comment-page-1#comment-20616</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1096#comment-20616</guid>
		<description>Re: Phil&#039;s Comments

Unqualified candidates apply for jobs in the hope that no qualified candidates will be found and the employer will opt to hire a trainable candidate with the right attitude and loads of potential, instead of leaving the position unfilled.

If there are minimum requirements for the position that are non-negotiable (for good reason) state them up front and make it clear that only qualified candidates will be considered. 

Employers also need to be open to shifting job openings and descriptions to accomodate well-qualified candidates, as long as doing so can be justified for business reasons. My office workplace now has higher level job titles and responsibilities on average than it used to - because the nature of the work has changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Phil&#8217;s Comments</p>
<p>Unqualified candidates apply for jobs in the hope that no qualified candidates will be found and the employer will opt to hire a trainable candidate with the right attitude and loads of potential, instead of leaving the position unfilled.</p>
<p>If there are minimum requirements for the position that are non-negotiable (for good reason) state them up front and make it clear that only qualified candidates will be considered. </p>
<p>Employers also need to be open to shifting job openings and descriptions to accomodate well-qualified candidates, as long as doing so can be justified for business reasons. My office workplace now has higher level job titles and responsibilities on average than it used to &#8211; because the nature of the work has changed.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2/comment-page-1#comment-20072</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1096#comment-20072</guid>
		<description>In sales the first round filter is called qualifying. Wouldn&#039;t it be great if a written job solicitation could be expressed so clearly that readers could legitimately self-qualify before applying, saving everyone time? 

&quot;Why do so many candidates apply for jobs for which they&#039;re not qualified?&quot; An answer might be found in that question&#039;s corollary: &quot;How many listings describe the ideal candidate rather than the skillset of the candidate most likely to be retained, given the budget for the position?&quot; I see a symbiotic relationship here.

Empty rhetoric that glows about workplace environment and the importance of people, etc. is just fluffy clutter. Its mirror image is the smarmiage used by candidates &quot;seeking a career opportunity that helps me grow in my career so I can provide value to the company by offering solutions to our valued clients&quot;. 

The most effective written communications realistically appraise skills in categories of clearly stated requirements vs. desired, and accurately put forth the position&#039;s potential liabilities, e.g. 50% travel, etc. In contrast, vague descriptions that aren&#039;t quantifiable (&quot;strong people skills&quot;, &quot;highly motivated&quot;) will result in a stack of resumes that are equally vague in their compatibility with the position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In sales the first round filter is called qualifying. Wouldn&#8217;t it be great if a written job solicitation could be expressed so clearly that readers could legitimately self-qualify before applying, saving everyone time? </p>
<p>&#8220;Why do so many candidates apply for jobs for which they&#8217;re not qualified?&#8221; An answer might be found in that question&#8217;s corollary: &#8220;How many listings describe the ideal candidate rather than the skillset of the candidate most likely to be retained, given the budget for the position?&#8221; I see a symbiotic relationship here.</p>
<p>Empty rhetoric that glows about workplace environment and the importance of people, etc. is just fluffy clutter. Its mirror image is the smarmiage used by candidates &#8220;seeking a career opportunity that helps me grow in my career so I can provide value to the company by offering solutions to our valued clients&#8221;. </p>
<p>The most effective written communications realistically appraise skills in categories of clearly stated requirements vs. desired, and accurately put forth the position&#8217;s potential liabilities, e.g. 50% travel, etc. In contrast, vague descriptions that aren&#8217;t quantifiable (&#8220;strong people skills&#8221;, &#8220;highly motivated&#8221;) will result in a stack of resumes that are equally vague in their compatibility with the position.</p>
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		<title>By: Tag</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2/comment-page-1#comment-20046</link>
		<dc:creator>Tag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1096#comment-20046</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t seen any real world examples here, so most of this discussion is non-responsive.  Here is a real world example:

I found a job listing for a position in a small company that was an excellent match for me.  The web site also listed the principals of the company.  Checked the principals on LinkedIn and found that one of them and I shared a (relevant) contact.  So I introduced myself to the principal via LinkedIn, referencing the contact.  A few days later I was contacted by the HR department and got a phone screen.  Didn&#039;t get me an interview, but it also didn&#039;t go into a black hole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t seen any real world examples here, so most of this discussion is non-responsive.  Here is a real world example:</p>
<p>I found a job listing for a position in a small company that was an excellent match for me.  The web site also listed the principals of the company.  Checked the principals on LinkedIn and found that one of them and I shared a (relevant) contact.  So I introduced myself to the principal via LinkedIn, referencing the contact.  A few days later I was contacted by the HR department and got a phone screen.  Didn&#8217;t get me an interview, but it also didn&#8217;t go into a black hole.</p>
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		<title>By: Manuel</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2/comment-page-1#comment-20043</link>
		<dc:creator>Manuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1096#comment-20043</guid>
		<description>Back to the question, what would I do?

Because is the job of my dream I would try my best.

1st I&#039;ll do my research about the company, the job, the hiring manager. I&#039;d try to get my best possible guess at what are they looking for, what problems they have, what are they trying to achieve. I&#039;ll see what the hiring manager style is. Is she active in Linkedin or other forums/blogs/networks? Does she appear as open to messages.

I would certainly look at the best way to contact her. Can I get introduced by someone we both know? do we share membership of a group? And then I&#039;d send a message / email with information relevant to the role. I&#039;d show her how I have done it or how I would do it. I would ask questions and for advice. Offer to have an informal discussion, to do the job for free. Point her to my recommendations in Linkedin, to my activity there.

And I&#039;ll submit everything also to the job board (if they let me)

As some one that has been a hiring manager I don&#039;t see how this approach can harm. The worst case scenario is that she completely relies on HR and my contact does not have a positive influence in the process. But again, if I get to the interview, all my research and work will show up.

I also agree with AaM, phone calls can be very annoying, and you are betting your chances. What if you are the 10th call in the day the hiring manager is preparing for a board meeting? But sending a lot of relevant information helps everyone. When hiring I have always loved the moment when I find that some one has put the extra effort to prepare and impress.

So, yes contact her but follow the rules, no phone calls and apply through the job board.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to the question, what would I do?</p>
<p>Because is the job of my dream I would try my best.</p>
<p>1st I&#8217;ll do my research about the company, the job, the hiring manager. I&#8217;d try to get my best possible guess at what are they looking for, what problems they have, what are they trying to achieve. I&#8217;ll see what the hiring manager style is. Is she active in Linkedin or other forums/blogs/networks? Does she appear as open to messages.</p>
<p>I would certainly look at the best way to contact her. Can I get introduced by someone we both know? do we share membership of a group? And then I&#8217;d send a message / email with information relevant to the role. I&#8217;d show her how I have done it or how I would do it. I would ask questions and for advice. Offer to have an informal discussion, to do the job for free. Point her to my recommendations in Linkedin, to my activity there.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;ll submit everything also to the job board (if they let me)</p>
<p>As some one that has been a hiring manager I don&#8217;t see how this approach can harm. The worst case scenario is that she completely relies on HR and my contact does not have a positive influence in the process. But again, if I get to the interview, all my research and work will show up.</p>
<p>I also agree with AaM, phone calls can be very annoying, and you are betting your chances. What if you are the 10th call in the day the hiring manager is preparing for a board meeting? But sending a lot of relevant information helps everyone. When hiring I have always loved the moment when I find that some one has put the extra effort to prepare and impress.</p>
<p>So, yes contact her but follow the rules, no phone calls and apply through the job board.</p>
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		<title>By: Nic</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2/comment-page-1#comment-19982</link>
		<dc:creator>Nic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1096#comment-19982</guid>
		<description>You nailed the whole damn thing down Nick in the last sentence, &quot; It would actually be easier just to invite people to talk shop for five minutes, get a picture of them and invite the best for interviews.&quot; That is the long and short of the bottom line of what is required, the problem is most of the people that would have to do such a thing, are not capable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You nailed the whole damn thing down Nick in the last sentence, &#8221; It would actually be easier just to invite people to talk shop for five minutes, get a picture of them and invite the best for interviews.&#8221; That is the long and short of the bottom line of what is required, the problem is most of the people that would have to do such a thing, are not capable.</p>
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		<title>By: Karsten</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2/comment-page-1#comment-19978</link>
		<dc:creator>Karsten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1096#comment-19978</guid>
		<description>@Nick:

I agree that getting rid of the ads would be very useful, and so would all the stupid careers sections of websites: They are usually full of bragging about how ethical, work-life balancing, fantastic and employee-empowering the company is; and in the end you must either send in an open application or fill out a gargantuan scheme with stupid questions. (&quot;How would you do the job&quot; rarely is among the questions). 

However, even if there was only a phone number and an email address, companies could still drown in applications. So, how should companies act to ensure that the candidates sort themselves; leaving bad candidates out and still be open to good candidates? 

One way would be for the company to hide all contact information and only leave it for the most dedicated to dig it up, but that may be a barrier to some candidates who are good workers, but not necessarily good detectives with big balls.

Another is to put out various exercies candidates could do. However, such exercises would have to catch all useful candidates. Only in my field, there would have to be exercises on sedimentology, sequence stratigraphy, geophysics, extension tectonics, compression tectonics etc etc - and that&#039;s just the geosciences part of the oil business! I fear that such exercises would either be too restricted/narrow, or they would have to be som  many that the purpose of relieving the manager of work would not be fullfilled. It would actually be easier just to invite people to talk shop for ffive minutes, get a picture of them and invite the best for interviews.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nick:</p>
<p>I agree that getting rid of the ads would be very useful, and so would all the stupid careers sections of websites: They are usually full of bragging about how ethical, work-life balancing, fantastic and employee-empowering the company is; and in the end you must either send in an open application or fill out a gargantuan scheme with stupid questions. (&#8220;How would you do the job&#8221; rarely is among the questions). </p>
<p>However, even if there was only a phone number and an email address, companies could still drown in applications. So, how should companies act to ensure that the candidates sort themselves; leaving bad candidates out and still be open to good candidates? </p>
<p>One way would be for the company to hide all contact information and only leave it for the most dedicated to dig it up, but that may be a barrier to some candidates who are good workers, but not necessarily good detectives with big balls.</p>
<p>Another is to put out various exercies candidates could do. However, such exercises would have to catch all useful candidates. Only in my field, there would have to be exercises on sedimentology, sequence stratigraphy, geophysics, extension tectonics, compression tectonics etc etc &#8211; and that&#8217;s just the geosciences part of the oil business! I fear that such exercises would either be too restricted/narrow, or they would have to be som  many that the purpose of relieving the manager of work would not be fullfilled. It would actually be easier just to invite people to talk shop for ffive minutes, get a picture of them and invite the best for interviews.</p>
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		<title>By: Karsten</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2/comment-page-1#comment-19976</link>
		<dc:creator>Karsten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1096#comment-19976</guid>
		<description>OK, Richard, then I think we agree!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, Richard, then I think we agree!</p>
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		<title>By: Nic</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2/comment-page-1#comment-19955</link>
		<dc:creator>Nic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1096#comment-19955</guid>
		<description>What percentage of a manager’s time would you say s/he should spend each week on recruiting tasks? (Not hiring or interviewing, but recruiting.) That really depends on company need, that stated, I think a top drawer &quot;manager&quot; always has a constant lead on talent, if he/she finds the need occurs the source is there. The database bit is a joke to me, for all reasons others have already explained.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What percentage of a manager’s time would you say s/he should spend each week on recruiting tasks? (Not hiring or interviewing, but recruiting.) That really depends on company need, that stated, I think a top drawer &#8220;manager&#8221; always has a constant lead on talent, if he/she finds the need occurs the source is there. The database bit is a joke to me, for all reasons others have already explained.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Hill</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1096/readers-forum-no-phone-calls-please-version-2/comment-page-1#comment-19954</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1096#comment-19954</guid>
		<description>@Karsten

&quot;@Richard Hill: Wouldn’t it be better then, to reserach the company and use the cover letter to explain how and why you could do the job, rather than trying to pimp your past jobs into something they were not?&quot;

It goes without saying that you should research the company offering the position and use your cover letter to promote your suitability for it.  You should also tailor your résumé to highlight how your experience and qualifications make you a good candidate.  I would not suggest &quot;trying to pimp your past jobs into something they were not&quot;; but any given job is susceptible to being spun different ways, depending on how you want it perceived by your audience (the hiring manager).  Every job has its responsibilities, challenges, small victories: highlight those that are relevant to the job you&#039;re seeking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Karsten</p>
<p>&#8220;@Richard Hill: Wouldn’t it be better then, to reserach the company and use the cover letter to explain how and why you could do the job, rather than trying to pimp your past jobs into something they were not?&#8221;</p>
<p>It goes without saying that you should research the company offering the position and use your cover letter to promote your suitability for it.  You should also tailor your résumé to highlight how your experience and qualifications make you a good candidate.  I would not suggest &#8220;trying to pimp your past jobs into something they were not&#8221;; but any given job is susceptible to being spun different ways, depending on how you want it perceived by your audience (the hiring manager).  Every job has its responsibilities, challenges, small victories: highlight those that are relevant to the job you&#8217;re seeking.</p>
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