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	<title>Comments on: Brazen Careerist: An indistinct notion of cool</title>
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	<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool</link>
	<description>The insider&#039;s edge on job search &#38; hiring™ &#124; Copyright © 2011 North Bridge Group, Inc. All rights reserved.</description>
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		<title>By: Is Penelope Trunk Feeding Gen Y Career "Crack"?</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool/comment-page-1#comment-37496</link>
		<dc:creator>Is Penelope Trunk Feeding Gen Y Career "Crack"?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 03:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1352#comment-37496</guid>
		<description>[...] the last year many times.  Oddly enough, the topic of several of our conversations has been about Penelope Trunk&#8217;s odd career advice and strange personal branding strategies.  Well here we are again, looking at more bizarre career [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the last year many times.  Oddly enough, the topic of several of our conversations has been about Penelope Trunk&#8217;s odd career advice and strange personal branding strategies.  Well here we are again, looking at more bizarre career [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nic</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool/comment-page-1#comment-25906</link>
		<dc:creator>Nic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1352#comment-25906</guid>
		<description>Josh, come on, &quot;If you don&#039;t drink the Kool-Aid you might be shunned by certain community clusters?&quot; Now let me be straight, I am not promoting or supporting that person&#039;s site in question which I think is not worth my reading yet what you said above, ARE YOU SERIOUS? If anyone took that advice, I can certainly assure that person would never get anywhere in life, let alone a career. I am not 100% sure what you mean by that statement or what you view it as, but in my personal opinion, that statement to me spells LOSER.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, come on, &#8220;If you don&#8217;t drink the Kool-Aid you might be shunned by certain community clusters?&#8221; Now let me be straight, I am not promoting or supporting that person&#8217;s site in question which I think is not worth my reading yet what you said above, ARE YOU SERIOUS? If anyone took that advice, I can certainly assure that person would never get anywhere in life, let alone a career. I am not 100% sure what you mean by that statement or what you view it as, but in my personal opinion, that statement to me spells LOSER.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh L</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool/comment-page-1#comment-25905</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1352#comment-25905</guid>
		<description>Nick, I share your sentiments completely.  It&#039;s ironic but I&#039;ve been a little hesitant to put them out there in the past because of fears of destroying social capital.  If you don&#039;t &#039;drink the kool-aid&#039;, you might be shunned by certain community clusters.  Sad, but true . . . as you know.
My youngest sister was turning to the Brazen Careerist for &#039;career advice&#039; . . . until it landed her out of a job.  I warned her that the author(s) there wasn&#039;t really trying to offer career advice - it was about being controversial enough to pull in lots of eyeballs, which can be monetized.
Shock Jocks come and go - in this case, I wonder how many young people have destroyed their careers or regret that &#039;great brazen advice&#039; about the benefits of sexually blackmailing the boss, etc.
Entertainment and advice are two completely different things.  Young people can&#039;t always tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, I share your sentiments completely.  It&#8217;s ironic but I&#8217;ve been a little hesitant to put them out there in the past because of fears of destroying social capital.  If you don&#8217;t &#8216;drink the kool-aid&#8217;, you might be shunned by certain community clusters.  Sad, but true . . . as you know.<br />
My youngest sister was turning to the Brazen Careerist for &#8216;career advice&#8217; . . . until it landed her out of a job.  I warned her that the author(s) there wasn&#8217;t really trying to offer career advice &#8211; it was about being controversial enough to pull in lots of eyeballs, which can be monetized.<br />
Shock Jocks come and go &#8211; in this case, I wonder how many young people have destroyed their careers or regret that &#8216;great brazen advice&#8217; about the benefits of sexually blackmailing the boss, etc.<br />
Entertainment and advice are two completely different things.  Young people can&#8217;t always tell.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool/comment-page-1#comment-25347</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1352#comment-25347</guid>
		<description>Andrew, You produce good work that speaks to the problems that the company  has.  What you do may be a bit rare, but it isn&#039;t brazen. However the thought of doing work that speaks to problems the business has, is wonderful career advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, You produce good work that speaks to the problems that the company  has.  What you do may be a bit rare, but it isn&#8217;t brazen. However the thought of doing work that speaks to problems the business has, is wonderful career advice.</p>
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		<title>By: Ask a Manager / Alison Green</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool/comment-page-1#comment-25229</link>
		<dc:creator>Ask a Manager / Alison Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1352#comment-25229</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve written about my complaints about Brazen Careerist in the past (&lt;a href=&quot;http://askamanager.blogspot.com/2009/04/brazen-careerist-gives-bad-advice-again_06.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://askamanager.blogspot.com/2009/06/im-going-to-stereotype-you-and-tell-you.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;), and I continue to think that the site often does its readers a disservice, by presenting terrible career advice to people who might be inexperienced enough not to realize it.

I suspect that it&#039;s a function of some of the BC writers striving to be like Penelope -- who has made a name for herself being provocative. But while Penelope can usually pull it off because she&#039;s good at what she does, the BC writers generally don&#039;t have the chops (or the experience) to.

I think Penelope is a beautiful writer, whatever other beefs one may have with her. Her writing at times -- particularly when she&#039;s writing about personal things -- has taken my breath away. In a good way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve written about my complaints about Brazen Careerist in the past (<a href="http://askamanager.blogspot.com/2009/04/brazen-careerist-gives-bad-advice-again_06.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://askamanager.blogspot.com/2009/06/im-going-to-stereotype-you-and-tell-you.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>), and I continue to think that the site often does its readers a disservice, by presenting terrible career advice to people who might be inexperienced enough not to realize it.</p>
<p>I suspect that it&#8217;s a function of some of the BC writers striving to be like Penelope &#8212; who has made a name for herself being provocative. But while Penelope can usually pull it off because she&#8217;s good at what she does, the BC writers generally don&#8217;t have the chops (or the experience) to.</p>
<p>I think Penelope is a beautiful writer, whatever other beefs one may have with her. Her writing at times &#8212; particularly when she&#8217;s writing about personal things &#8212; has taken my breath away. In a good way.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Corcodilos</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool/comment-page-1#comment-25194</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Corcodilos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 01:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1352#comment-25194</guid>
		<description>A few comments:

@Vivian: I didn&#039;t say Trunk lacks integrity. I said there&#039;s a lack of integrity between Brazen Careerist and the image Trunk fosters for it. I also haven&#039;t questioned Trunks&#039;s ability to build her brand or her talent as a &quot;diarist.&quot;

I&#039;m talking about the website&#039;s position as a &quot;career&quot; site. That&#039;s what it calls itself.

You also say, &quot;But if you take it as career advice, you’re missing the point.&quot; How is anyone missing the point? It&#039;s called Brazen CAREERIST. And the articles on it provide advice about careers.

@Andrew Shell: You say, &quot;we’re not trying to be a career advice site&quot; and then you refer to, &quot;A career focused social network like Brazen Careerist...&quot; The word career keeps coming up, and you can&#039;t dispense with what it means to be a career advice site if you focus on career issues. Come on - I&#039;ll say it again. There is no integrity when a thing behaves differently from the way it defines itself.

Now I&#039;ll go a step farther because in the end, this is about value and about quality. Robert Pirsig (author of Zen &amp; the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance) would say (I think) that as a consequence of not having integrity, the site lacks quality. And I&#039;d agree. I think the site trips all over itself.

Back to Vivian: Why would I want to learn about Gen Y from a career site that lacks integrity and quality, as I&#039;ve just defined them? (If you disagree with my definitions, I&#039;d like to know why.) What I see is a lot of confused people trying to figure out their aspirations, jobs, careers and life. Nothing wrong with people dealing with their confusion, but Brazen Careerist seems to promote confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few comments:</p>
<p>@Vivian: I didn&#8217;t say Trunk lacks integrity. I said there&#8217;s a lack of integrity between Brazen Careerist and the image Trunk fosters for it. I also haven&#8217;t questioned Trunks&#8217;s ability to build her brand or her talent as a &#8220;diarist.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m talking about the website&#8217;s position as a &#8220;career&#8221; site. That&#8217;s what it calls itself.</p>
<p>You also say, &#8220;But if you take it as career advice, you’re missing the point.&#8221; How is anyone missing the point? It&#8217;s called Brazen CAREERIST. And the articles on it provide advice about careers.</p>
<p>@Andrew Shell: You say, &#8220;we’re not trying to be a career advice site&#8221; and then you refer to, &#8220;A career focused social network like Brazen Careerist&#8230;&#8221; The word career keeps coming up, and you can&#8217;t dispense with what it means to be a career advice site if you focus on career issues. Come on &#8211; I&#8217;ll say it again. There is no integrity when a thing behaves differently from the way it defines itself.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;ll go a step farther because in the end, this is about value and about quality. Robert Pirsig (author of Zen &#038; the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance) would say (I think) that as a consequence of not having integrity, the site lacks quality. And I&#8217;d agree. I think the site trips all over itself.</p>
<p>Back to Vivian: Why would I want to learn about Gen Y from a career site that lacks integrity and quality, as I&#8217;ve just defined them? (If you disagree with my definitions, I&#8217;d like to know why.) What I see is a lot of confused people trying to figure out their aspirations, jobs, careers and life. Nothing wrong with people dealing with their confusion, but Brazen Careerist seems to promote confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Vivian</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool/comment-page-1#comment-25180</link>
		<dc:creator>Vivian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1352#comment-25180</guid>
		<description>The most telling comment here is Andrew Shell&#039;s, that Brazen Careerist is not a career advice site but a social network. From that standpoint, it might be a good listening site for those of us who don&#039;t understand Gen Y. Those of us who have established careers and who need to attract and mentor those who don&#039;t (we call them &quot;emerging professionals&quot; in my organization) have a real need to learn to speak their language. 

That being said, it sounds like Penelope Trunk is doing a great job of building a brand, if the brand she wants is &quot;frank, emotional, controversial conversation starter.&quot; Most of us don&#039;t want or need that brand for our careers. Perhaps it&#039;s not a lack of integrity, after all, on her part; perhaps it&#039;s just extreme. 

When I advise people on using social media, I advise them to identify their audience and their objectives before they start, then to listen, and then to join the conversations to which they have the most to contribute. If Gen Y is your audience, then listening to Brazen Careerist might be important. (It might also be entertaining.) But if you take it as career advice, you&#039;re missing the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most telling comment here is Andrew Shell&#8217;s, that Brazen Careerist is not a career advice site but a social network. From that standpoint, it might be a good listening site for those of us who don&#8217;t understand Gen Y. Those of us who have established careers and who need to attract and mentor those who don&#8217;t (we call them &#8220;emerging professionals&#8221; in my organization) have a real need to learn to speak their language. </p>
<p>That being said, it sounds like Penelope Trunk is doing a great job of building a brand, if the brand she wants is &#8220;frank, emotional, controversial conversation starter.&#8221; Most of us don&#8217;t want or need that brand for our careers. Perhaps it&#8217;s not a lack of integrity, after all, on her part; perhaps it&#8217;s just extreme. </p>
<p>When I advise people on using social media, I advise them to identify their audience and their objectives before they start, then to listen, and then to join the conversations to which they have the most to contribute. If Gen Y is your audience, then listening to Brazen Careerist might be important. (It might also be entertaining.) But if you take it as career advice, you&#8217;re missing the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Shell</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool/comment-page-1#comment-25178</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Shell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1352#comment-25178</guid>
		<description>Bob,
I think expertise and a good personality are required if you plan to be brazen.  I&#039;d figure out who in the company was important/influential and who wasn&#039;t, I&#039;d work on projects in secret that I knew would blow away those key people and then casually mention &quot;Hey, check out what I threw together&quot; and watch as they turned my side projects into official projects.  I like to live by the saying that &quot;It&#039;s easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,<br />
I think expertise and a good personality are required if you plan to be brazen.  I&#8217;d figure out who in the company was important/influential and who wasn&#8217;t, I&#8217;d work on projects in secret that I knew would blow away those key people and then casually mention &#8220;Hey, check out what I threw together&#8221; and watch as they turned my side projects into official projects.  I like to live by the saying that &#8220;It&#8217;s easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool/comment-page-1#comment-25176</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1352#comment-25176</guid>
		<description>Dear Andrew,
I read your post with interest and I&#039;d like to comment on something you said about yourself personally. You said that you moved to the next job and former employers still seek to work with you. Congratulations.  I&#039;ll bet that wasn&#039;t because you were &#039;brazen&#039;.  I believe you developed an expertise and you were a good personality to work with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Andrew,<br />
I read your post with interest and I&#8217;d like to comment on something you said about yourself personally. You said that you moved to the next job and former employers still seek to work with you. Congratulations.  I&#8217;ll bet that wasn&#8217;t because you were &#8216;brazen&#8217;.  I believe you developed an expertise and you were a good personality to work with.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne</title>
		<link>http://corcodilos.com/blog/1352/brazen-careerist-an-indistinct-notion-of-cool/comment-page-1#comment-25175</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://corcodilos.com/blog/?p=1352#comment-25175</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know, a recurring argument across blogs is that Ms. Trunk &quot;isn&#039;t looking for a job&quot; &quot;doesn&#039;t need to build a brand&quot; - but that can change</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know, a recurring argument across blogs is that Ms. Trunk &#8220;isn&#8217;t looking for a job&#8221; &#8220;doesn&#8217;t need to build a brand&#8221; &#8211; but that can change</p>
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