I’m Out! :)

Ask your boss if he’d be more comfortable providing references on the phone. (“It might mean a few phone calls in total, but that might actually require less of your valuable time…”)

And don’t forget you can get references from lots of other people. Other mgrs in your company, co-workers, customers, vendors, even competitors who know you well. References are a broad spectrum — look all across it.

As others have pointed out, references via phone are probably more common than ones in writing. Check the links within the newsletter link above — it offers good ideas on how to prime your references legitimately.

Signing the reference does not mean the Manager agrees to it but rather it gets it out of the way for them. They would probably sign anything that was written.

And if they wouldn’t, what really baffles me in your arguement is that if they have time to read it, verify it, presumably ammend it and then sign it, why not take the few minutes it would take to write the thing in the first place?

It’s laziness.

My point I was trying to make that you picked up on incorrectly I think is “What if YOU were the person interviewing someone knowing that the reference was self written? Would you accept the reference as unbiased and truthful?

I know Employers participate in this practice because thats what the discussion is about but the employer I am referring to is the one on the receiving end of the scam.

Your experience clearly shows that this poor practice goes to the top of the pile which is the real problem. Bad practices at the top will always lead to bad practices further down the company.

What is the point of references if they are self written?

The “employer” routinely participates in this practice also. I know of some companies who forbid their employees from giving/writing references for fear of liability, but most companies are aware of this practice and there is no consequence for it. By having the job-seeker write his own reference, doesn’t mean the manager thinks poorly of the candidate, and I think it is understood (at least the companies I’ve worked for), that by signing it they agree and confirm what is written, and will often add edits.

I have helped my clients write their own reference letters from their bosses who have been President’s, CEO’s, CFO’s, HR Director’s (YES–HR!), so this is not a covert practice. To reiterate, it is not an ideal situation, but I believe it is understood that when the manager,etc. signs the reference letter they are confirming the content. In my almost 20 years of business I have never heard of anyone being fired over this.

Yes, I would like this practice changed, but the job seeker should not be penalized because of it until a change occurs.

The simple fact of this style of reference writing is that the employee gets a good reference whether it’s true or not because surely, even the worst employee is not going to write themselves a bad reference are they? If you’re using a self written reference signed by your Manager, you’re now the one misleading a future employer because they will not think that it’s self written and why should they seeing as the old Manager has signed it and falsely implying that they wrote it.

To the potential employer at least, it is not worth the paper it is written on. They just don’t realise it at the time because they are being misled by you. What would happen to you if they hired you based upon the strength of the reference and then found out who really wrote it? You might be job hunting again sooner than you think so is it really worth it?

Think about what it should really say to you as the employee when you have to write your own reference. It means that the Manager doesn’t have to waste 15 mins of their time on someone they clearly don’t value or care about and they probably consider it good time keeping rather than bad management. The message from the Manager to the Employee is “I’m not interested in you and can’t be bothered wasting any of my valuable time on you. I certainly don’t think you are good enough for me to write a reference for you so you write what you like and I will sign it and then hopefully you will leave me alone.”

Some of the responses here are clearly from employees but how would you feel if you were the employer? Would you be happy interviewing the candidate knowing that the candidate themselves had written their own reference being presented to you?

It might be borderline legal but it certainly is unethical to any honest person and its worth remembering that if you go down this road it’s both the Manager and you who are acting unethically.

I don’t disagree with any of the reasoning behind your disgust with folks who won’t write their own reference letters. But, I do take issue with this comment: “Sorry, but I’m not going to answer the rest of your question. I have a lot of trouble with putting words in people’s mouths. I’ve got an even bigger problem with devaluing references and recommendations by writing your own. you, If I were you, I’d go look for another reference.”

The job seeker may have only one Manager they report to, or a limited number of relevant (according to the type of reference a company typically desires) reference options, and not have the luxury of going elsewhere for references. Yes, the ideal is a great reference written by the true author, but I wouldn’t advise a job seeker to turn down one from a manager who wouldn’t write their own, especially if other options are limited. In turning it down, it could offend the manager also, then making it difficult for them to get a verbal reference – if they are the type not to write it, they’re not that considerate anyway – so could be consequences. I’m all for taking a stand on business ethics, although I don’t want a job seeker penalized for an unseemly, but not illegal practice.